Posts by Doug Mason

8

Who first applied Isaiah 9:6 to Jesus?

by Doug Mason in

who was the first christian writer to apply isaiah 9:6 to jesus?.

i mean as a direct quotation, not as an allusion.. doug.

Doug Mason

Leo,

Thank you.

I cannot find any NT writer directly quoting Isa 9:6, but someone could enlighten me in that regard.

Doug

20

jw splinter groups

by bigmac in

jookbeard wrote:.

"they are globally united in their beliefs;.

not true there are many splinter groups and sects of the wts and they have the worse retention rates of any man made religious cult on the planet".

One of the earliest splinters still meets near me. They were formed in 1909 when CTR's first emissary to Australia, Henninges and his wife Rose (of certain notoriety) defected and formed the New Covenant Fellowship. They are buried at nearby Burwood cemetery.

"Somewhere" I have a copy of a letter written about the time complaining that Rutherford was illegally wresting power and control of the WTS. You only need read of Rutherford's physical abuse towards those who had legitimate right in accordance with CTR's will.

Rutherford was not named in CTR's will as a primary inheritor to leadership of the WTS.

http://www.jwstudies.com/WILL_AND_TESTAMENT_OF_CHARLES_TAZE_RUSSELL.pdf

During CTR's time, the organisation was democratic, but Rutherford was intent on creating an autocratic top-down "theocracy" in which his right to rule could not be challenged. While in jail in 1919, Rutherford was deeply troubled by the potential outcome of the voting and he vowed to change the system, which he achieved.

A Google search for each of the names mentioned in CTR's will reveals the history of some of the numerous splinters that formed following CT's death.

Doug

8

Who first applied Isaiah 9:6 to Jesus?

by Doug Mason in

who was the first christian writer to apply isaiah 9:6 to jesus?.

i mean as a direct quotation, not as an allusion.. doug.

Doug Mason

PS,

Maybe, but I need to see a reliable source

I do not know the answer. That is the reason for my question.

Doug

30

How Long Can WT Stonewall The Mounting Evidence For Evolution/Age of Man?

by Room 215 in

the evidence for some form of evolution -- and the age of earth and life upon it -- is mounting almost daily.

how long can the wts insulate its followers from the incontrovertible evidence without lapsing into total irrelevance?

what do you think?.

Doug Mason

I find it stunning that this should be an issue in a First World country.

Is this a major issue in any other "advanced" country?

How can a community that is so advanced in and reliant on technology and scientific knowledge be taken in by stories written about 800 BCE by people who had a totally wrong cosmology?

Which of those ancient writers was a witness to the stories they wrote and rewrote?

Which story is correct, Genesis 1 (with El and the Elohim) or Genesis 2 (with YHWH / HWHY)?

Why did the Yahwist writers provide a different and conflicting account to the story written by the "Elohist" (priestly) writers?

Doug

8

Who first applied Isaiah 9:6 to Jesus?

by Doug Mason in

who was the first christian writer to apply isaiah 9:6 to jesus?.

i mean as a direct quotation, not as an allusion.. doug.

Doug Mason

Who was the first Christian writer to apply Isaiah 9:6 to Jesus?

I mean as a direct quotation, not as an allusion.

Doug

248

H. Hunger Reviews R. Furuli's "Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian Chronology, Volume II"

by AnnOMaly in

a long-awaited review by professor h. hunger, foremost authority on babylonian astronomical cuneiform tablets, of dr. r. furuli's assyrian, babylonian, and egyptian chronology.

volume ii of assyrian, babylonian, egyptian, and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible is now available to read for anyone who is interested.

you can find it at http://goto.glocalnet.net/kf4/reviewhunger.htm.

Doug Mason

Billy,

You will be pleased to know that the process you describe is being presented at:

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TPHQURFQA6VOL3BP1

Doug

6

Cyrus's Decree versus Ezra and the Chronicler

by Doug Mason in

the following is part of the decree on the cyrus cylinder, now in the british museum:.

i am cyrus, king of the universe, the great king, the powerful king, king of babylon, king of sumer and akkad, king of the four quarters of the world, son of cambyses, the great king, king of the city of anshan, grandson of cyrus, the great king, ki[ng of the ci]ty of anshan, descendant of teispes, the great king, king of the city of anshan, the perpetual seed of kingship, whose reign bel (marduk) and nabu love, and with whose kingship, to their joy, they concern themselves.. .

when i went as harbinger of peace i[nt]o babylon i founded my sovereign residence within the palace amid celebration and rejoicing.

Doug Mason

Prodigal Son,

What does it do to your understanding of History Writing by the Hebrews?

Remember, the only things we know about them comes from the elite, the people who could write. We only read their side of the story.

Have you read "Who Wrote the Bible?" by Richard Elliott Friedman?

While that book deals with the OT, the situation with the NT is equally fascinating.

Doug

6

Cyrus's Decree versus Ezra and the Chronicler

by Doug Mason in

the following is part of the decree on the cyrus cylinder, now in the british museum:.

i am cyrus, king of the universe, the great king, the powerful king, king of babylon, king of sumer and akkad, king of the four quarters of the world, son of cambyses, the great king, king of the city of anshan, grandson of cyrus, the great king, ki[ng of the ci]ty of anshan, descendant of teispes, the great king, king of the city of anshan, the perpetual seed of kingship, whose reign bel (marduk) and nabu love, and with whose kingship, to their joy, they concern themselves.. .

when i went as harbinger of peace i[nt]o babylon i founded my sovereign residence within the palace amid celebration and rejoicing.

Doug Mason

Black sheep,

It is most likely that Ezra was responsible for stitching together the various written traditions into the first four books, Genesis to Numbers. (Deuteronomy was written at the time of the Babylonian Captivity as part of their history.)

I sent you a pm.

Doug

6

Cyrus's Decree versus Ezra and the Chronicler

by Doug Mason in

the following is part of the decree on the cyrus cylinder, now in the british museum:.

i am cyrus, king of the universe, the great king, the powerful king, king of babylon, king of sumer and akkad, king of the four quarters of the world, son of cambyses, the great king, king of the city of anshan, grandson of cyrus, the great king, ki[ng of the ci]ty of anshan, descendant of teispes, the great king, king of the city of anshan, the perpetual seed of kingship, whose reign bel (marduk) and nabu love, and with whose kingship, to their joy, they concern themselves.. .

when i went as harbinger of peace i[nt]o babylon i founded my sovereign residence within the palace amid celebration and rejoicing.

Doug Mason

The following is part of the decree on the Cyrus’ Cylinder, now in the British Museum:

“I am Cyrus, king of the universe, the great king, the powerful king, king of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four quarters of the world, son of Cambyses, the great king, king of the city of Anshan, grandson of Cyrus, the great king, ki[ng of the ci]ty of Anshan, descendant of Teispes, the great king, king of the city of Anshan, the perpetual seed of kingship, whose reign BEL (Marduk) and NABU love, and with whose kingship, to their joy, they concern themselves.

“When I went as harbinger of peace i[nt]o Babylon I founded my sovereign residence within the palace amid celebration and rejoicing. MARDUK, THE GREAT LORD, bestowed on me as my destiny the great magnanimity of one who loves Babylon, and I EVERY DAY SOUGHT HIM OUT IN AWE.

“My vast troops were marching peaceably in Babylon, and the whole of [Sumer] and Akkad had nothing to fear. I sought the safety of the city of Babylon and all its sanctuaries. As for the population of Babylon […, w]ho as if without div[ine intention] had endured a yoke not decreed for them, I soothed their weariness; I freed them from their bonds(?).

“MARDUK, the great lord, rejoiced at [my good] deeds, and HE pronounced a sweet blessing over me, Cyrus, the king who fears HIM, and over Cambyses, the son [my] issue, [and over] my all my troops, that we might live happily in his presence, in well-being. At HIS exalted command, all kings who sit on thrones, from every quarter, from the Upper Sea to the Lower Sea, those who inhabit [remote distric]ts (and) the kings of the land of Amurru who live in tents, all of them, brought their weighty tribute into Shuanna, and kissed my feet.

“From [Shuanna] I sent back to their places to the city of ASHUR and SUSA, AKKAD, the land of ESHNUNNA, the city of ZAMBAN, the city of METURNU, DER, as far as the border of the land of GUTI - the sanctuaries across the river Tigris - WHOSE SHRINES HAD EARLIER BECOME DILAPIDATED, THE GODS WHO LIVED THEREIN, AND MADE PERMANENT SANCTUARIES FOR THEM. I collected together all of their people and returned them to their settlements, and THE GODS OF THE LAND OF SUMER AND AKKAD which Nabonidus – TO THE FURY OF THE LORD OF THE GODS – had brought into Shuanna, at the command of MARDUK, THE GREAT LORD, I returned them unharmed to their cells, in the sanctuaries that make them happy. MAY ALL THE GODS THAT I RETURNED TO THEIR SANCTUARIES, EVERY DAY BEFORE BEL AND NABU, ASK FOR A LONG LIFE FOR ME, AND MENTION MY GOOD DEEDS, AND SAY TO MARDUK, MY LORD, this: “Cyrus, the king who fears YOU, and Cambyses his son, may their … […......................................................…….]. The population of Babylon call blessings on my kingship, and I have enabled all the lands to live in peace.” (http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/article_index/c/cyrus_cylinder_-_translation.aspx. Translation by Irving Finkel, Assistant Keeper, Department of the Middle East, The British Museum) [HIGHLIGHTING ADDED] The words at the opening to the book of Ezra are nothing like the Decree of the Cyrus Cylinder. The Hebrews’ record added the reference to Jeremiah, while Cyrus is named “king of Persia”, rather than the title Cyrus gave to himself, “king of the universe ... king of the four quarters of the earth”.

This is how the Hebrews amended Cyrus’s words:

“In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and to put it in writing:

“This is what Cyrus king of Persia says: ‘‘The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. Anyone of his people among you—may his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem in Judah and build the temple of the LORD, the God of Israel, the God who is in Jerusalem. And the people of any place where survivors may now be living are to provide him with silver and gold, with goods and livestock, and with freewill offerings for the temple of God in Jerusalem.’ ”(Ezra 1:1-4)

Why is there such a great difference? Because the writing of history is always interpretive; and in the case of Ezra and of the Chronicler, their history writing was interpreted through their theology.

Did Ezra and the Chronicler invent these words? If not, where did they get them?

For the mature student, a highly probable solution is provided in the file available at:

http://rapidshare.com/files/426680075/Fried_on_dedication_of_temple.pdf

Doug

11

Is God so small?

by Doug Mason in

if a grieving muslim prays to her god, does he refuse to listen?

does god refuse to provide comfort because she did not say yahweh?.

if a person who believes in god calls him/her "allah", does god turn his back like a petulant child?.

Doug Mason

If a grieving Muslim prays to her God, does he refuse to listen? Does God refuse to provide comfort because she did not say Yahweh?

If a person who believes in God calls him/her "Allah", does God turn his back like a petulant child?

How small is God?

Doug